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Show Notes

Are you a business owner losing a lot of money when it comes to sales? Don’t worry, you are not alone! Most business owners make the same huge mistake when trying to grow their business. Join me this week as I chat with my friend Annie Ruggles about the biggest mistake business owners make when it comes to sales.

Contact Annie Ruggles

https://www.anniepruggles.com/

Want to Work with Jennifer and her Virtual Marketing Experts Team?

Are you a coach, consultant, or online course creator who are looking to grow your business, increase your income, and scale your impact? Connect with me at YourMarketingMatchmaker.com I look forward to hearing from you.

Jennifer Tamborski 

Hey there, everyone. Welcome back to marketing matchmaker today, I am super excited to have a guest with you today. I know I talk a lot about the difference between marketing and sales on this podcast. Also about things like know, like, and trust and, and how to really get people into your sphere into your audience. And today I have an actual sales expert on the show to help us dive into more of the differences between marketing and sales. And just what she did that kind of maybe almost broke her business and how she figured out how to change that. So I’d like to welcome Annie Ruggles to our show. She is the founder of the Non Sleazy Sales Academy. That doesn’t everybody want to be non sleazy in their sales? Welcome to the show. Annie, I’m super excited to have you here today.

Annie Ruggles 

It is an honor and a delight to be here. And yes, when you say that I almost ran myself out of business. I mean, like business was on life support. I had an autoimmune disease, like I did, not my business, like my business lives. Right. And debt was piling up like, it was critical, y’all. It was not like I had a famine moment. It wasn’t even a pit of despair, like I was on my way out of business. And I only had myself to blame. And I didn’t know that I was to blame, right. So today, I want to share some missteps. I made some reframes I had to take and some strategies that I use to climb out of that darkness. Because you might also be in a hell of your own making. I don’t say that so that you feel bad. I say that so that you know, what you are in right now is a fixable problem.

Jennifer Tamborski 

I love that. I love that. Because I think every entrepreneur goes through that they go in those ups and downs and the ones that hold on by their fingertips can climb out. Yeah, there are so many others that just give up. I mean, yes, I think they say like 80% of business owners fail within the first I think they say five years, I don’t know, five years.

Annie Ruggles

80% will fail by year five. Because what it takes to cobble together a business for a year is very different than what it takes for two years, three years, four years, right, new level new devil. So again, if you’re listening right now, and your business is struggling, there’s hope. And it’s gonna take work. Both things are true.

Jennifer Tamborski 

Yeah, I agree. So one of the things one of the myths that I hit a lot with business owners is that marketing is going to fix their business. Marketing is going to help them are create sales in their business. And I like to clarify that marketing and sales are two different things, right? They they’re cousins, or kissing cousins, I guess you could say,

Annie Ruggles 

oh, darlin, yeah.

Jennifer Tamborski 

And there’s, they’re still separate entities. So explain in from your perspective, how are marketing and sales different,

Annie Ruggles 

You know, thinking like a CEO and thinking like a business isn’t unfolding, right. But it has many, many, many, many layers in that unfolding. And for me, I wasn’t necessarily thinking like a CEO or any C level executive in my business for many years, just because I was too in the struggle to have that kind of Eagle Eye Vision.

But the one thing I had to take from corporate or from larger companies, is that in larger companies, there is a sales department, right, and a marketing department. And they pass the baton to each other back and forth, back and forth, need a little bit more grease for this back to marketing need a little bit more pep for this need to make more money this quarter back to sales, right? And they have this kissing cousin relationship, but they’re not the same thing.

And so what I realized that I was doing was twofold.

And the first part of it was, I had heard know, like and trust and I loved marketing. I was a marketer. My clients and I had the best brands on the block. We were fabulous. We were adorable. We were out there, we were all broke. We were trying to market our way into people’s homes, that is incredibly hard to do. It also costs a bunch of money takes a bunch of time and feels like progress because you have marketing metrics to watch. Right?

But in a business in a proper functioning business there would come a time when those leads would be brought in by marketing and turned over for closure by sales. Right. And I wasn’t doing that I was never really asking. I was just marketing, marketing and marketing. And occasionally I would drop a buy button.

That is not selling, that is marketing and throwing a buy button at people. It’s not the same thing. Sales is The Art of Problem Solving for money, marketing, advertising is interruption. Okay, advertising is I’m doing something else. And wham, here comes an ad to shake me in marketing is the more nurtured more organic version of that even when it’s planned.

Marketing seduces your buyer.

It can seduce them badly in a non ethical way. Or it gets loose that seduce them delightfully with their consent, right? Those open rates, those clicks those shares those views that engagement, that engagement is a seduction, right.

But that we still got to marry the people and change their lives forever, and whisked him off into the sunset. How do we do that we solve problems. Right? So selling says, not only we understand who you are and where you are and what you want, but selling says We are the team or the person to get you what you want through partnership and delivery. If we’re not there, we’re still just selling dreams and problem solving that we’re not ready to show.

Sales, hits the ground running, proves the process, proves the product and then asked to be compensated for that. And then has to navigate the hesitations and confusions of the buyer and cue them up for yet another deployment, called customer service. Right? Fulfillment. So there’s exactly fulfillment, and then evangelism, there’s a whole other part of it, right? So what we think is if I have the best shiniest marketing people will throw money at you. And that is true of an extreme. We try to get as squeaky as possible for you all extremely small subset of buyers, most buyers need to be asked, they will not cross finish lines that are not clearly drawn out for them.

You are brilliant and amazing. I’m sure of it. But you’re not Beyonce, people aren’t just going to queue because you happen to be coming to town, they need to be invited. They need to be reassured they need to be handheld. And in a lot of ways they need to be convinced with consent that is selling, drawing attention and visibility to you. That is marketing and getting people to pay attention to you when they’d rather be doing something else is advertising.

Jennifer Tamborski 

I love all of that. Because it does make it so clear for for everybody. The difference between all three, all three and that let’s be honest, you need to have all three in your business in order for your business to be successful. Yeah, takes us to your story. Oh, me, tell me how your business was almost on life support because I mean, obviously you’re brilliant. So how did you get to that point?

Annie Ruggles 

It was a dark and stormy night that lasted for several years right and part of it was I am a loosey goosey Empath over deliver by nature always have been will be till I die. Right so part of it was a glaring lack of boundary because I didn’t understand the delivery part of it because I hadn’t handheld the middle right. So I had to do someone to falling in love with me.

And then they started asking me for stuff and I hadn’t asked for anything in exchange. So I just started giving and giving and giving and giving and giving and giving give, give, give, give give. Yeah right. And all the while I was also doing what I call the martyrdom of over marketing, so I had the shiniest tools the I was hiring people to help me I love hiring people to help you y’all but don’t do it when your business is sinking focus it and make money right like right focus on profits right the ship then reinvest. I was reinvesting money that I couldn’t really reinvest in the name of marketing.

I was building a big list that I never contacted. Or, were rarely contacted, right.

Jennifer Tamborski

Oh, ouch, hurts my heart.

Annie Ruggles

Of course it does. It should, right but these things creep up on us. And we get stuck in this idea of being loved versus being profitable or being useful versus being profitable or being known versus being propped suitable and the people the kind of people that I work with. We are lovingly behind the scenes support staff, people, we are coaches. We are copywriters. We are here to help you shine. And so it was never like, oh, I don’t want to be famous. I reject a seven figure lifestyle.

It was never even that it was just like, hey, I’m out here. Let me help you. Please let me help you. Okay, let me help you. And then eventually, if I help you enough, you’re gonna pay me right and like, and eventually, when you pay me enough, I guess I’ll raise my rates eventually.

And in the meantime, I guess I’ll just keep giving and keep waving because I thought number one, I thought I could market my way through a sales problem number two, I thought that generosity would yield reciprocity. Because I’m a good person, or I like to think of myself as a good person. And the people I work with are good people. And I know they’re good people, and I would fight for them and defend them as good people. So of course, naturally, if I’m being generous, they’re gonna reciprocate, right. Right. No, thank you.

Because that’s not what we’re talking about being genuinely generous. Right? We’re taught that genuine generosity is a gift. And people don’t expect to repay gifts with more than thanks. Or maybe a goat, right, like getting back into barter system, like here’s a pie, right? If I go out right now, and I shovel, I shovel my elderly neighbors walk. I’m not expecting him to come over with 20 bucks. I’m expecting him to be like, Oh, what a nice neighbor. And maybe they’ll make me a pie someday. Right?

We can’t run our businesses. That way. We can’t run our businesses on 20 bucks, hopefully in a pie someday. We’re not giving gifts, we have gifts. We’re sharing gifts. But we’re solving problems with those gifts. And we need to be compensated, I wasn’t.

I was the most popular marketing strategist in town, and I was flat, busted, broke. And then I looked at my clients and what got me out of that pit was I wasn’t ready to fight for me. I couldn’t see it. But I sure as hell was ready to fight for my clients. And I was looking at them. And I was like, You are brilliant. You are driven. You are dedicated. Your marketing is on fire. You are taking bold steps every single day. Why are you broke? And then I looked and I went, Oh, they’re all modeling me. Right? I’m not teaching conversion. I’m not teaching sales calls. I’m not teaching objection handling. I’m not teaching meeting people where they are. I’m not teaching payment plans. I’m not teaching any of this. So they’re just hanging out and happy Marketing Land delivering all day until they die.

That’s how I got into that pit. And that’s how I almost put myself out of business. For years on paper. My business was an iceberg. It was gorgeous. The top was shining, I had clients, I had a great website, I had friends. I had people that relied on me, I had a really cute little brand. I had dang good logo, like, you know, all that stuff. People would see my old brand and go, Oh, that’s cute. And I’m like, Cool. I’ve made it. No, you’re making it when your business is profitable. And when you are willing to receive without complaint for the services and problems you solve,

Jennifer Tamborski 

Right. Yeah, I mean, I think people get into this mindset of money is especially I find in the coaching industry. Like there’s a statistic out there that 90% of coaches make less than $50,000 a year in the coaching industry, right? I know, it hurts me too. Because it’s it’s completely unnecessary. And they’re doing exactly what you did. They’re giving everything away without that exchange of energy, like, Reality is this, your clients are going to get a much better ROI from whatever they invested in you if they actually invest something.

Annie Ruggles

And if what they invest is fair, yes, right, because I also bargain basement hid myself for a long time, just so people would give me some skin in the game. So once I stopped charging nothing, I started charging next to nothing, right? Didn’t really fix much. Um,did you know if you charge $5 for an event or the event is free science will show that more people will come to the $5 because they have skin in the game. That’s true. But I was still attracting people that wanted to throw a small amount of money at a large problem. So there was still a gap and expectation management and a gap in delivery. Yeah, and, and I was putting myself in the bargain basement. And we don’t trust things in the bargain base.

Jennifer Tamborski 

No, that’s so true.

Annie Ruggles 

So like what’s your favorite food

Jennifer Tamborski 

Thai food.

Annie Ruggles 

Okay, so perfect. If I love so we happen to be from not from because you’re a transplant there but I’m from you live now where I am from.

Jennifer Tamborski 

I grew up here in North County.

 

Annie Ruggles 

You’re from Norco. That’s right. You went city and now you’re out in the boonies. But I grew up in the boonies and let me tell you, there is is not a correct term, there was absolutely nothing. Yes, wounds for my entire childhood. So Thai food, if you can find a Thai food in, in suburban rural Missouri, you are going to cling to that restaurant for life. Because if they’re good, and they prove themselves, they’re probably the only one and growing up we had one. It was called FOMs. And it was Thai in French and it was amazing. And I remember it because it was that good. So in honor of farms, which used to be next to a Kmart if you went to go out and get Thai when you go to get Thai, what do you normally order?

Jennifer Tamborski 

Well, there is a local one called Thai kitchen. They have Thai Kitchen chicken, that’s what I normally get there.

Annie Ruggles 

Perfect. So the Thai Kitchen chicken costs about how much?

Jennifer Tamborski 

I don’t know. 20 bucks,

Annie Ruggles 

20 bucks. Okay, we’ll say it’s about 20 bucks. So you go in to Thai Kitchen, free advertising for Thai Kitchen. Yay. For you go in for Thai kitchen. And they know you and they know that you want it and you’re about to order your regular, which is you expect to spend about 20 bucks plus whatever else you get plus tip, right? And they’re like No, Jennifer, no, no, we have a one day only special. It’s exactly like the Thai chicken. But it’s only $2.

Jennifer Tamborski 

Yeah, it makes you suspicious. Because…

Annie Ruggles

…makes you suspicious. Yep. Why would you be giving me the same for that much left? It must be from yesterday.

Jennifer Tamborski 

Yeah. Or even get 2 pieces or something like there’s something weird.

Annie Ruggles 

Gonna be a trick. There’s gotta be something wrong, because we expect to pay 20. If they say, Oh, hey, it’s Wednesday, it’s happy hour, that’s half price. Okay, it gives me a reason that justifies it. Sure. I’m not saying you need to slash yourself to have price. Y’all don’t misunderstand me. But I’m saying if you do more than that, if you are under retail value for your services to that degree, then either you have happy hour, and you need to make that extremely boundaried. And that 6:15 It goes back to full price or on Thursday, it goes back to full price now and forever. Right? Or if you’re discounting it so much we don’t trust it, because we assume that somebody’s takeout came back and has little kid germs in it. Yeah. Right. And we’re gonna like that. We don’t trust what’s too cheap. We don’t.

Jennifer Tamborski 

And that’s exactly I mean, even on sales pages for like, we all see the ads that come through, right? Right. I know by this bundle. It’s normally $15,000. It’s on sale today for seven.

Annie Ruggles 

And you’re like, right?

Jennifer Tamborski 

Right? You’re not gonna get anything for that. Like, please don’t value in that trust.

Annie Ruggles 

The bargain basement. Now I will go through old record bins and find my Burt Bacharach from 1972. That scratch to you know what? And I will love that because it’s an old record that I had the experience of mine grew a bargain bin. Right? Yeah. If I find a book that I know I wanted on the bargain bin, I’m like, Oh, I guess this book wasn’t that good. Let me go ahead and buy it, though. Because I wanted to read it anyway. Don’t do that to your brand.

I’m not saying you have to be the most expensive person in the world. You don’t. But you do have to price yourself fairly. You got to be in the neighborhood. Yeah. Because otherwise we just are trained, and rightly so as a survival mechanism. Not to trust the car. That looks great on the outside, but it’s 500 bucks. Yeah.

Jennifer Tamborski 

I agree with you so much on that. I say that all the time, especially when like people always ask them questions on how to decide on an agency, how to make sure that the agency and I was like, Well, here’s the reality, if they’re charging you $500 They either don’t know what they’re doing, or they’re from overseas. Those are your two options.

Annie Ruggles 

Yeah. And then you get what you pay for. Right? There have been times when I’ve needed the lower price option. And I’ve hired offshore and I have been happy with that because I knew what I got. And it was within expectation it was within boundary. Right, but I can’t expect a sirloin steak at White Castle prices.

Jennifer Tamborski

Absolutely.

Annie Ruggles

And look and I know that as a buyer, and yet as a marketer as a Pricer, I wanted to be that White Castle pricing, because it was the easiest closest thing to barely charging. Right? It was the most comfortable close to over delivering as well, if I can be the most affordable, I’ll get most people no you won’t you.

 Jennifer Tamborski

And the people you get at that price point, want a sirloin steak. And they’re the most demanding people in that price point. Yeah, the less you charge them, the higher of a pain in the butt, that client is going to be.

Annie Ruggles 

genuine need are different. If you want to have a scholarship or you want to do something pro bono, that is your prerogative, but it has to be bound read within an inch of its life, I have a tip that I use, because it wasn’t when people go to raise their rates, the number one complaint that I hear is I’m going to leave people behind, and you are and that sucks.

I’m not gonna say it doesn’t suck. But the majority of people you are leaving behind. you’ve outgrown them, and they’ve outgrown you and they need a different service provider now, right? Like they have graduated from you or you have graduated from them. And it should be a happy thing. But but we don’t think of it that way. Right? We don’t think of it that way. We’re like, Oh, I gotta hang on to this person.

So what I do for when I have people that have been with me for a long time, is based on what I learned from my coach, which I call the bar, at what she calls sorry, the bar of resentment, based on how I feel about that person, the workload, my understanding of them, I will grandfather them into a rate between, right, so if I’m raising my rates by 20%, I’ll raise it for them by 10. And I’ll explain to them I’m not raising you all the way I’ll raise you by 10 that is a boundary, right?

Or I have a those old school fundraising thermometers in my head of time and money that I’m allowed to donate each month. And when that’s full, that’s full. And it hurts for a little while, until you get used to it. And then you’re like, Listen, I’m all full up on pro bono this month. I can’t take any more, will you reach back out to me in a month? And if they really want to work with you? And if they’re as great as you think they are? They will wait.

Jennifer Tamborski

Yes, right.

Annie Ruggles

They will wait until the next time you have availability, because they understand that they’re getting you for less. And they will be excited about that. And they will see that as an opportunity. But the majority of your cost-based buyers are not going to wait.

Right. So they’re not going to end and so if anything, they wait for your annual report, everything’s $1 Birthday sale or your Black Friday, but then again, we don’t trust things when they’re too cheap. And you have to worry about price integrity for the rest of the year. Right. So I really wasn’t expecting to rant at all about discounting today. But really, one of the main culprits that kept me in that pit of despair was underpricing, constantly discounting and having no price integrity, or boundaries.

Jennifer Tamborski 

I hear you my friend. And I think it’s a I think, especially when you get into that pit of despair. That’s a hard that’s the first thing they want to do.

Annie Ruggles 

Yeah. Well, because desperation says try anything. Yes. Yeah. Desperation says, Oh, that sandwich sport guy, the spinner guy. He’s just out there being more dramatic. So maybe I got to be more gregarious and do more things in my marketing. No, ask someone to pay you.

Jennifer Tamborski 

That’s, that takes us to the big giant question. What’s the one thing that they do? That’s worse than anything else?

Annie Ruggles

Don’t ask. That’s it. Yeah.

 

That’s what I did. Right? And so I am a coach and a trainer. A lot of my business comes through discovery calls, Clarity Calls, sample sessions, whatever you want to call it. Right? And again, I’m in the mindset of dance, monkey dance, know, like trust, right? I know, like, trust is awesome. But it’s not know like, trust pay you. If they know you, and they like you and they trust you.

You have earned the right to ask them for money.

Yes, I didn’t do that. So I would have somebody come on for like a 45 minute, 30 minute hour, I mean, again, no boundaries, our sample sash, and I would love them and they would love me and like mountains would be moved, they’d be crying. They would walk away with a whole new brand and an hour. And then we would get to the end and I would look at us getting to the end of our time and I would panic. And I’d say this is the part where I’m supposed to pitch and what I would do instead is one of many things, but most often the easiest one right Occam’s Razor, I would just take the easiest route out.

And so I’d have them in delight, my brain is still saying they know me, they like me, they trust me, they’ll be back, it’s fine, you’re done, go, go, go go. So at the end of the call, instead of pitching, instead of talking about next steps that I’ve talked about pricing, or how they could work with me, instead of doing any of that next step, I would panic and go, that’s anathema to me, I can’t do that in integrity, these people trust me, I’m going to take advantage of them, I’m not even going to bring up the evil that is money. So what I would do is I would delight them for an hour on my time. And then I’d say, Jennifer, thanks so much for sitting down with me today. If you’re ready to work together in the future, let me know. Bye,

What am I doing right, and I would do that all the time, all the time, or the other one, I’d set a price and I’d be like, cool, I’m doing this, Yay, I’m gonna sell this program for 500 bucks, I’m going to charge 100 bucks an hour for consulting, it’s gonna be amazing. And then I get somebody on the call, same thing, I’m Wow, in them. I’m rockin their socks. And then I’m like, You know what the price for that is $500. But um, you know, your home girl to me, I know, we don’t live in different states. We live in different states now. But like, you know, you’re like my, like, you’re just out there. And like, I know where you live. And like, we probably have relations that are the same. And like, you know, we’re friends and, and we just had such a great conversation. So like, the public price is 500 bucks, but like, and then we start home shopping network call in the next two minutes. And I’ll double that for you call them the next minute.

And it’s $7.

And it’s like, whoa, because we’re trying to make urgency or scarcity. And the only way we know to make urgency or scarcity is to give more or slashed the price, right. And so what I would do is I’d go around, and I’d be like, This is a $500 car and make $500 on this call. And I would walk away with about 47 bucks. And it’s because I had negotiated it to myself again, no boundary, right?

So the most important thing that you can do when you have someone on the hook with consent, right? They are there with consent. They know that they’re about to be sold to you’re not going to shock them if suddenly you’re like, Hey, I just delivered for 45 minutes. Now let me tell you what might be in this for me and what’s next? They’re not going to be like how dare you? Ah, what they will get thrown by is a if you don’t ask, because they’re expecting you to ask and be more importantly, if you shape shift into another human being. Right. So like, you’ve all been listening to be ranting at you about pricing and undercharging for a half hour now. So imagine this is time for me to pitch. And Jennifer’s like Annie? Where do people find you?

And suddenly I’m like, thank you so much for your time today. I would really appreciate it if you would go to Annie p ruggles.com. Or on the flip if I was like you right now you got to go to my website, you go to my website, you click that button to press that button. You’re gonna click that button in either aspect. The person would be like, Who the heck is this? Right? I know. And like and trust Annie. And now bizarro Wonderland mirror Annie is selling to me or attempting to and I don’t want that.

So y’all, the most important thing that you can do for your business, if you are in struggle, is fall in love with asking as yourself, with your values on display, with integrity on display in your personality and your style, there is a way for you to ask and receive and once you find that, and once you hold that, you will have a whole different business.

But if you keep getting off the phone, or keep putting out marketing with no Buy button and no way to deepen them through that funnel, if you’re letting them off the hook when they need you most that’s on you.

Jennifer Tamborski 

That is so true and powerful. I mean, there’s so many out there right now that are struggling with just that with, with the sales portion of it. I mean, you can accidentally make money. I know a lot of people..

Annie Ruggles

I accidentally made money.

Jennifer Tamborski 

But when you turn around and you focus on it, and you focus on really creating that opportunity for someone to buy from you. And purposely making money. Yeah, everybody wins that.

Annie Ruggles

Right. Everybody wins and you can continue to grow. You can’t scale accidental money.

Jennifer Tamborski

Nope.

Annie Ruggles

Right. Like we have watched people that have gotten Tik Tok viral, tried to go tick tock viral again by doing the same thing. You can’t scale lightning in a bottle.

Jennifer Tamborski 

Right? Absolutely. Absolutely. So if you’ve had 50, 60, $70,000 or even maybe six figures, but you’re just kind of holding on by the skin of your tea at this point. You have a program.

Annie Ruggles

Yes.

Jennifer Tamborski

Tell us about the program.

Annie Ruggles 

The Non Sleazy Sales Academy does what I just it is the whole thing is based on doing what I said that we all need to do, which is learn to ask as us, not for you to learn to ask as Annie, people say this all the time, Annie, I’m not as loud as you. I’m not gregarious as you, I’m not a muppet like you like, I can’t do this. None of that. And I don’t care. If you are the most introverted person in the whole world, I will challenge you, I will push you I will stretch you.

But at the end of the day, it’s going to feel like you’re the one asking because it needs to. So the Non Sleazy Sales Academy teaches you the strategy and reframes that you need to ideally learn how to receive and give simultaneously so that you can profit in your business without killing yourself. Right.

That’s specifically what it’s for. It’s about getting to that sustainable success point with the kind of clients you want, solving the kinds of problems you have. And you can find out all about that at any p ruggles.com. or non sleazy.com. But yeah, that’s specifically what it’s for edits judgment free because I was there, you know, they say all the time, build the program or write the book that you needed. It’s not that there wasn’t good sales training out there.

I read 138 sales books in a row when I wanted to fall in love with sales. And some of them were really good. But I couldn’t find anybody that really wanted to talk directly to the heart of me and why I had struggled to sell in the past. Right. So it’s a judgment free zone, understand stuff like chronic over delivering, so that we can get you to pull the good parts about that, which is how much you want to give and the problems you want to solve. And your love and your ethics for your client and your integrity. We got to pull the good parts out of over delivering and polish them into something sustainable.

Jennifer Tamborski 

Yeah. And I I encourage everyone who is struggling with sales. And let’s be honest, if you haven’t talked over six figures, you’re struggling with sales. Yes.

Annie Ruggles 

I know what you’re selling, how to sell what to charge, one of those three things is a problem.

Jennifer Tamborski 

Yep. So I would encourage you to head over to any website, I’ll have all that information in the show notes. Because without selling, right, I’m the front end, I give you the leads. But I can only give you leads that if you can close them, if you can’t close them, it doesn’t matter how many leads I provide you.

Annie Ruggles

And nothing hurts your marketing staff or your marketing hires or your marketing consultants and contractors more than that, yeah, nuts. I’ve been there. And I know you feel the same way. If we’re queuing up balls for you that you’re walking away from. It hurts us because we don’t want that for you. And we’ve done more work for you than that. Right. And also the marketer gets blamed Well, I’m not making any money, they come back and they yell at the marketer. Don’t yell at the marketer, you have a sales issue.

Jennifer Tamborski 

I mean, that’s my favorite story. When it comes to in my business. I had a client, she was fabulous, loved her to death. She was awesome. I provided her with 30 leads within two weeks in a two week period. She got on the sales calls, and I was having conversations with her in between them. These are fabulous. People love them. They’re my ideal client, all of that. And at the end of the day, she sold zero.

Annie Ruggles 

Yeah. That’s a sales problem. Right?

Jennifer Tamborski 

Which then she comes back and I didn’t get my ROI. Well,

Annie Ruggles 

you didn’t didn’t get because you didn’t sell.

Jennifer Tamborski 

So yeah,

Annie Ruggles 

right. If you go to a birthday party and you go home and you haven’t had any cake, you can’t be mad at anybody other than yourself because you’re the one who didn’t eat the damn cake. Okay. So we got to feed ourselves and we feed ourselves through sales.

Jennifer Tamborski 

Absolutely. So if you are struggling with your sales, head over to Annie’s website, I will have all that information in the show notes. Thank you so much for joining me today. Annie. It was so good to chat with you. And I will see talk to all of you next week.

OUTRO: Thank you for listening to the marketing matchmaker podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, I would love to hear your feedback. Please head over to Apple iTunes and leave a review so we can hear from you. And if you are a coach, consultant or online course creator who are looking to grow your business, increase your income and scale your impact. Connect with me at your marketing matchmaker.com I look forward to hearing from you.