Show Notes

I’m joined by sales professional, and CEO of Changing the Sales Game, Connie Whitman. Tune in for a valuable discussion on what creates a foundation for success in sales, the difference between sales and marketing, and how critical both elements are to your success.

Contact Connie:

Website: https://www.changingthesalesgame.com/

LinkedIn Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/conniewhitman

Facebook Profile: https://www.facebook.com/WhitmanAndAssociates

YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfFk14mMr46U68ZQDDKin2A

Twitter Profile: https://twitter.com/Connie_Whitman

More info here: https://whitmanassoc.com/csa

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Watch the Podcast Here:

Hey there. Thanks for listening and welcome to the marketing matchmaker podcast. If you're looking to grow your business, increase your revenue and scale your impact all while staying true to who you are and the people you serve. This is the show for you. I'm Jennifer Tamborski, digital marketing strategists, fractional CMO, and founder of Virtual Marketing Experts. My team and I work with six and seven figure coaches, consultants, and online entrepreneurs who are tired of playing the guru game of one size fits all marketing. They're ready to create a business and marketing strategy that actually builds relationships with their ideal clients creates massive shifts in their business and rapidly increases their revenue. As your marketing matchmaker, I'm going to help you find the perfect marketing match for you. This show will teach you how to reach your ideal client, connect with your audience, build that perfect relationship and generate more revenue. All through a process I like to call dating your ideal client. Now let's go have some fun!

Jennifer (01:13):

Hey there everyone. Welcome back to Marketing Matchmaker. I am super excited about today's episode today. I have my friend Connie Whitman with me. Connie is known for her high energy, passionate, heart centered, and enthusiastic approach to sales. And we actually got talking through networking and I just loved her point of view when it comes to sales. Connie has been the CEO of Changing the Sales Game for 29 years, which is actually longer in business than I have been, which I think might be hard to accomplish. She helps business owners, leaders, and sales teams build powerhouse organizations. Welcome to the Connie. I am super excited to have you here.

Connie (02:05):

Thanks for having me, Jen, you crack it up. I was waiting for you to say, oh, so she's older than me. That's that's terrible. That's where my head went. I'm thinking, yes, I am older than you. My friend

Jennifer (02:16):

I doubt you're as much older than me that you might think. I just took a little I've I've been in business now for, for about 17 years in the, the virtual space. And so really long story short, I started my business as a VA. Oh. Before VAs were kind of a thing and moved into marketing through that. I love it. And so so yeah, I love seeing business owners that have been in business for, and a period of time. They really do have that kind of foundation.

Connie (02:47):

Yeah, yeah. And passion. Right. I think owning a bit. Yeah. We have to be passionate about our topic. So, yeah. Agree.

Jennifer (02:53):

Yeah, absolutely. Okay. So today we're talking about sales and marketing, which a lot of people confuse. They put one inside, the other marketing is sales or sales is marketing. You and I actually had this conversation offline about the difference between the two. So I love your, to hear your kind of point of view for that.

Connie (03:16):

You know, I love, I love of our conversation because of that, because I can't tell you the number of times I speak or I'm in a networking event and people say, oh yes, sales and marketing. And I pause and I say, yes, they're both super important. And they're both very, very different things. They're married. They have to be married. You need them together. You can't have one without the other, but they're separate. And I tease, and I think I said this to you, Jen. I go, I'm really 40 years in sales. I know my stuff. Right. You asked me anything, how to approach a client, a situation, a sticky situation I've got ya. You ask me about your marketing messaging and your email sequencing. What? Forget it, blow my mind. Okay. It hurts. So marketing and sales are two very, very different things. My take on this, Jen, is that we need the marketing piece so that we start to build that like no trust that we start to get people to say, Hmm, I like what she's all about. Then when you post that you have an event or a podcast or something, they'll actually take the time to come and see you or hear you speak or say, oh, she's part of the networking event. I wanna be part, I wanna meet her. Right. So it's the catalyst for the initial engagement. But then when you get with them live again, it could be on, when I say live, it could be zoom, not live in personal all the time. Now, now we're still dealing, with covid.

Jennifer (04:38):

Especially Nowadays.

Connie (04:40):

We're I think we're, we're gonna have a hybrid life going forward where you're gonna have both options available, live-hybrid, you know, that kind of thing. So we're not just always live or just always virtual. And but now you're in front of the client or you're in front of the prospect or you're speaking at an event. This is where all that marketing better be an alignment with who you, you are. So like when you read my, my bio, I am heart centered. I, my whole sales career has been about, for me, sales is educating right? And coming from this place of love, care, and respect versus I have to make the sale. I need to pay my mortgage. You know why aren't the prospects responding to me and that whole energy, well, if your messaging is off and then they meet you and they think, oh, this isn't what I thought I was gonna get.

Connie (05:29):

Right? It's it's this miscommunication. It, they're not gonna feel trusted that that like, no trust is lost. So that's where, to me, the messaging is so important because it has to be who you are. And so when people meet you now you're lifting the, I call it, lifting the marketing off the page and bringing it to life now. And that's the sales piece. It's the bringing it to life. And can I just comment one more thing. Absolutely. I hear so many times, well, if your marketing's good, you don't have to sell. If you're really good at sales, you don't have to market. Like, I, I wanna, I, I stop breathing sometimes and I think, no, we need both. Yes. You know, it's like saying, oh, if a beautiful Ferrari, there's no gas in it, but I'm gonna look really good behind the wheel. Right. That's like having sales with the marketing or the marketing without the sales. So I just caution people that they're two very different things. They are married and there is an overlap, but again, they, they, they thrive off each other. So you kind of need to make sure that you have both. But if your marketing is great and then you're a dud in front of the client, that's a problem, you know,

Jennifer (06:37):

A huge problem. And one of the problems that I think a lot of business owners run into, especially in my world, which, which is a lot of coaches and, and consultants, they are coming from a heart centered place. They wanna help. And their sales, maybe a dud. So what are some mistakes that, that people make when they first start trying to sell?

Connie (07:02):

Yeah. I'm gonna go through my seven steps, which is just the easiest way. So here's the thing. Everybody has a process, right? And, but I believe that when you figure something out, that works use it. Here's the other thing, my seven steps, I always say to clients, you're the secret sauce, not me. Mine is a process. It's a logical approach to sales, right? Just like you have to have a good lead magnet. And the lead magnet has to convert. It has an objective. My seven steps is nothing more than an organized. I've organized the thought process for a really good dynamic conversation. There's a whole bunch of sub skills in those seven steps. Okay. So I'll go through them. And that this I think will help. The people listening, number one is being prepared. And this, I find often I have people say, well, I know my stuff.

Connie (07:51):

And they're excited and they're overbooked and they just get on a call and they start going, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Instead of being prepared about, who am I meeting? What do they think their need is? Or their problem is so I can dig in a little bit. Is that really what's going on? If I'm not prepared, I'm not prepared, Open-Minded enough that I'm just going in saying, oh, they want this. They want my nine week program. I'm gonna give my nine week program. Meanwhile, after you meet them, they really need one month of one on one coaching for you. So you see what I mean? So prepared is really important. Please. Don't just get in there and wing it. Even though it's your zone of genius. You can't wing it. Second one is we have to build rapport. And so everybody goes, oh, I'm really good at building rapport.

Connie (08:36):

Yes. But are you building rapport so the person in front of you is receiving your message. Not only hearing you, but processing you. And so I have a free gift which will give at the end, and this will help expedite that. Building that relationship literally in 30 seconds or less, when you get really good at it, you can, you can expedite that piece in less than 30 seconds. So that's the, the second. Yeah. It's cool. Third step is questioning. Okay. So again, here's the process you have to question, listen, and then present. What I find often is people will ask two or three questions. Okay. I got it. Got it, got it. They just about listen because the listening step, we have a six second attention span. We take turns talking at each other as humans. So you can have these amazing questions, but then what happens is, so Jen, you're answering my question and I'm thinking, well, when she shuts up, I'm gonna share blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Connie (09:33):

Or I'm gonna ask my next brilliant question, because I'm so smart, right? So I'm exaggerating this, but we're, we're talking at each other, not with each other. And then what happens? That question you asked, you gave me some really good insight in your answer, but I'm half listening most of the time. So what happens is I'm missing follow up questions where I can really kind of dig in and get to the nooks and crannies of what's really going on in your world so that when I get to the next step, right, step five, which is presenting my ideas, you're gonna be off. So if the question listening, isn't again, married together, they go hands in hand and you go back and forth between question listening, question, listening, for me, the listening piece is active listening. When the person answers your question and you think uh-oh, there's more going on here based on what they said.

Connie (10:28):

Let me ask a follow up question. So if we're taking turns, talking at each other and I have these great questions prepared, but I'm not actively listening, you're leaving money on the table or you're gonna lose the sale at the end, because then when you present, you're either not presenting the correct thing that they really do need. So you'll hear things like, eh, I have to think about it. Eh, I don't have the money. Eh, I don't have the time they start coming up with these objections. Whereas if you do this really, really well, and you get to the present, the fifth step you're so spot on that. They're leaning in like, where have you been my whole life? This is exactly what I need. Because you took the time. You spent a lot of time in that question, listening phase, the presentation should be easy peasy.

Connie (11:11):

And then the next step is where you say, I think we should get started, right? That literally is asking for the business. It should be as easy as that. And if you've done those first five steps, really, really well when you ask for the business piece, right? Cause your presentation, your, your recommendation is spot on the person. Three things will happen. One, the client is like, where have you been my whole life? Two, now you really understand the client. You might say something like, I might say something like this, Jen, okay? You definitely need help with the sales. And from me, here's the thing. Your messaging is off, not a marketing expert. I have a colleague and friend, Jen, you really need to talk to her. Let's have a three way meeting. Get that piece settled. And then let's give ourselves three or four weeks.

Connie (11:57):

And then we could start with the sales stuff, but we're putting the cart before the horse. So one, they're eager to work with you two. You say, you're not ready for me yet because, and this is where I have a huge network. And I tell my clients, I'm a Jersey girl, Jen. I tell my clients, I tease 'em and I go, I got a guy. So here I really do. My network is so because I've been doing this for so long, I know somebody that has every type of business you can imagine. And I know who I trust, who I use. I have vetted. So when I say you're not ready for me, I usually, usually they don't have someone doing marketing or, or their, their backend infrastructure. And then I could bring people in to help with that so that I trust and I know will be in alignment with my client.

Connie (12:43):

Again, adding value, even though I might not get paid for that there's value added for the client. And then the last step is follow up and you have to make sure you follow up because give you a quick stat, cuz I know you have more questions. 1% of successful business owner bonus and sales people follow up past the fifth, touch a touch can include an email, a phone, a zoom, a connection on LinkedIn, a chat, whatever you, you know, met in a networking event. What happens is most people after of the fourth follow up, they stop and they think, oh, I'm being pushy. I'm gonna let it go. And you're leaving so much money on the table because we have a six second attention span we need to be followed up with. It's actually about 13 to 18 times now.

Jennifer (13:29):

Yeah. I heard that. And, and that actual message right there, the 13 to 18 times actually applies to marketing as well.

Connie (13:38):

That's right.

Jennifer (13:39):

You have to get into front of people over and over again, before they're even ready to get on a sales call with you.

Connie (13:44):

That's right. That's right.

Jennifer (13:45):

So when it comes to sales in that question and listening portion, right? That's, I think that's where people struggle the most is that listening and diving in and you, you said something about the diving deeper into the problem. I always say you have to sell people what they want to give them what they need. And I think that's the point where we're really finding out what they need. And I think that's, that's exactly right. That's a process that people miss so often in sales.

Connie (14:21):

Yeah. And, and I'll, I'll, I'll share a story to make that point how important this is 100 years ago. When I started my sales career, it was selling insurance, have my series seven license here in the United States. And then I have all my life health, all those other additional licenses, property and casualty. And the first time I went in, I had done a mailing and a blue collar, young family. I went in, he needed life insurance. He was the sole provider, et cetera. Well, as we're talking right. And this is so funny because it's, it was a natural skill for me. And then I really, really honed it when I realized the importance of that question, listening combination. But I remember my first client he said I needed a hundred thousand dollars of life insurance. And as we were talking, they were just about paying their bills.

Connie (15:07):

They were just about putting food on the table and they little girls. So I'm thinking, okay, he's gonna get this insurance for 50 bucks a month or whatever it was. Is he gonna be able to put food on the table or worst case? He's gonna do this for six months, right. Spend the $300, let it lapse. Now he's out $300. He doesn't have the insurance and he's still behind the eight ball with his budget. This is not right. So I explain, see, sales is education. I said this at the onset. So really I started to dig in and I said, forget about the insurance. Can, can we have another conversation? And I asked them to bring me their bills and their income. And they trusted me, which was see again, because I stopped. And I said, wait a minute, let's not do this and throw the money away, you can't afford to lose $300. So I put them on a budget or I helped them figure out a budget. And it took about six months. They had a little bit of money in the bank. They were adhering to the budget. Cause you know, once somebody else looks at it, we're, we're spending money on stuff. We don't need to

Jennifer (16:06):

Absolutely every day,

Connie (16:07):

Right? We all do it. We all do it. So here I have this clean, you know, vision. And then I have this financial background NetNet they bought the insurance for me. It never lapsed. And they were so grateful because I, it took me six months to make a sale from them. But I did the right thing. And here's the blessing. And the, and the magic that happens when you do that, they became one of my best, all of my clients became my best referral system. I got, I got into the niche without even asking for it. Well, I worked with blue collar people cuz I didn't talk down to them. I didn't, I wasn't condescending. Cause I had all this financial knowledge. I educated them, got them on the budget. And then we sold the insurance from there. And then I looked at their property and casualty and all the other stuff as well. So I truly help them create a position of protecting their assets, which really the most important assets was the wife and kids. So you see what I mean?

Jennifer (17:01):

I do.

Connie (17:02):

That's where he wanted insurance. He needed insurance. He was right. But that's, he, he put the cart before the horse. I got him to do that and for them to keep the insurance. So that's what that's our job in say, is that, and that's where you dig in. Did that help?

Jennifer (17:16):

That did. And it does it. I think it helps to explain what I mean when I say sell them what they want to give them what they need. Cause oftentimes people don't even know what they need. That's right. When they come to you, they want more sales or they want more clients or they want whatever the thing is they want. But it, it may not be what they need right that second, most often they don't know that. I think, I think a lot of people are scared of sales,

Connie (17:45):

Agree, agree. My one client I, I did a workshop free workshop. And then at the end I had my, you know, my offer like everybody does. And it's a nine week program. The first week I, she was so defiant. I tease her all the time. Now she's still a client, but she was like, I, I hate sales. I suck at sales and I'm not good at sales. The worst part of the job, I wish I could just outsource that. Or I don't even know that I want keep a business. She had been a business five years. I'm like, can you chillax? Right. I was teasing her. I said, let me put you in my Petri dish, trust me. You're gonna love the sales conversation, cuz it's always about the client. And she was very heart centered. All of the things that, that you need to be fast forward week three, she comes through the class that she says, oh my God, this is the most fun I've had in years with my clients.

Connie (18:31):

She was creating packages. Cuz I teach people to really customize your recommendations. So you stop leaving money on the table and you make more sales without working any harder. It's always worked smarter, not harder for me. Right? So week three, she came in loving sales. She had made back the investment. It was $2000. She made back the investment. She was renovating her bathroom and she was taking a vacation in August, all paid for because she started creating packages and making $2,000 sales instead of $300 sales. And now she, so she hired me. Yeah. One on one after the night, she was like, no, I need you. Which I just laugh at. I'm like, well you really don't but okay. And we had our meeting last week. She's gonna more than double what she made last year. And she met me in June of last year. So, you know, it's,

Jennifer (19:18):

That's amazing.

Connie (19:18):

Isn't that the coolest thing. But she came in hating sales.

Jennifer (19:22):

And I think, I think that's what people, because people do hate sales and marketing. Let's be honest. They hate both of our industries, they just do because it feels to them. I think,

Connie (19:36):

Over overwhelming,

Jennifer (19:36):

Inauthentic, overwhelming. You know, when you talk about sales, people, people think used cars, salesmen, and, and that I think is a concept that we get to do away with.

Connie (19:48):

Yep. Agree

Jennifer (19:49):

As business owners, we're all salespeople. That's what we are. And if we follow your method that makes it authentic to who we are, then I think it becomes easy.

Connie (20:00):

And here's the other important piece. And now I'm putting my business strategist hat on. Cause I've been in business so darn long. Right? So I see business everywhere cuz you just play in that, that world enough. Here's the other thing to keep in mind as you're building and creating and, and like you said, the, the whole word sales is this icky thing. We have to stop thinking that because what people do is they say I'm gonna outsource the sales. My recommendation is, mm, I would pause because no one is gonna be as passionate. No one is gonna be able to give that back history. If the client wants it, where you're gonna these rich stories and ideas and people are gonna feel you more than hiring just a salesperson who's making a commission. Not that that's a bad thing. When you get to that extent where you're in growth mode.

Connie (20:44):

Yeah. Hire a team. But initially outsource everything else, you should be doing the sales. So outsource the marketing, outsource somebody, managing your active campaign or your list, outsource the infrastructure, outsource your social media, all of those things. That's not your zone, a genius, your zone of genius is your business and the coaching and working with the client, that's where you should be focus. So that would be the last thing I would give away. I would give away all the other stuff. And then when you really start to get into the million-dollar range, that's when you have to start to build a team.

Jennifer (21:16):

So, so for those people who say, I suck at sales and that don't feel like they're a good salesperson, what is your biggest tip for them?

Connie (21:27):

So when my communication style assessment, which we'll share at the end, once we truly understand our style and the gifts that come with that, right? Our superpowers and the challenges that come from that we're in a position of power because now I understand my blind spots. So I know that in I'll give you an example you, you and I, we both have high energy. I have high energy. I move fast. I, I like 50,000 feet up in the air view. So what happens with social media and stuff like that? I was making mistakes. I was forgetting to post I'm like, Ugh, I don't wanna write that article.

Connie (22:03):

Such work for right where I'm like, oh, can't I just network and talk to people and do my podcast and do videos. Like that's so much more fun. Well, yeah, but that's a very one dimensional approach. So I had to hire someone and for years my husband is the polar opposite of me. Anytime I create anything, I'm like edit it. And, and honestly he'll say to me, did you reread this? And I go, yes, three times why. He goes, oh my God, like, this is awful because cause it's too detail driven. Right? So you see the importance of me knowing that I surround myself and hire people that I know are gonna shine the light on my blind spot. I'm never gonna be good at that blind spot, by being aware of it, I'm bringing the right people in my orbit so that my business keeps growing and I don't have to do all those things that create angst in my life.

Connie (22:50):

Now, if you're just starting out and you can't afford to do that, then you wanna reach out to friends and family that can edit for you. Or so initially that's what I did. I would have like my friends that were good at things. Can you look at that? Can you do that? My sister's creative. Can you create a, a cool thumbnail for that? Don't ask me to do any of these things. But know your people and people wanna help. And then as you can start to hire, you become very clear at that's my blind spot, but that's your zone of genius. I need you to be part of my team. So, and, and the other important thing with the communication style is I can flex. Then once I understand and I'm in front of an engineer type or computer programmer, they're very methodical, very detail driven.

Connie (23:32):

They like information. I don't. Gimme three pieces of information and I'll pull the trigger and make a decision they don't. But when I'm with someone like that or a prospect, I slow down, I provide the analytics, I show up, remember I said prepared. I show up super prepared because I know what they need so I can flex into them so that they not only hear me, but now they start receiving my message. And now I'm landing on the same page with them. So it's just a powerful tool and I'm happy to share it with your peeps. Because I think that will help with that piece of the puzzle as well.

Jennifer (24:06):

I think I agree with you. I think communication styles is incredibly important and most people don't know what their communication style is. Yeah. It's actually just as important in sales as it is in marketing. One of the biggest things that we're able to do in the, in my company is speak to many communication styles because we are NLP trained. So we have the ability to, so I have several people on my team that are NLP trained. And so we are able to hit those different communication styles, which then brings in different communication styles to the sales process. So I think understanding that is super important.

Connie (24:52):

Yeah. And another thing I'll just share when you're doing a group, you have all different styles in there. Yes. So it's funny when I teach this and I'm in a group I had, I did Microsoft, I had done training for Microsoft and one of the gentlemen said to me, opposite style for me. And he said it's interesting. I see you executing. I said, can you give me an example? Cause I'm all about the application. Like, you understand it, but what do you see me doing from an application standpoint? He said, you speed up, you slow down. Then you show a slide and then you talk, then you ask something in the chat. He said, so you're, you're, you're going up and down. You're using visuals, you're using verbal, you're using examples. You're using stories. He says, so you're addressing every style. And I said, and that's exactly right. When you're one on one, it's much easier because you, you just flex to that style. But if you have a group that you're presenting to at an event, you, you wanna include all of those NLP, all of that stuff in how you present. And again, once you understand it, you could start to control it.

Jennifer (25:54):

Yeah. So speaking of understanding it, share with the audience, your CSA, where they can find how to find out their communication styles.

Connie (26:06):

Yeah. So we'll put the link in the no, so that you guys can click and go, it'll take you right to the assessment. Click on it and you'll go through take the quiz, right? It's it's pretty easy. Make sure you read the directions cuz it is a scaling thing I do. So that you're the results you get are really super accurate compared to some of the models out there. So read the directions. You will get two reports in an email sent to you, you'll get a chart and then you'll get a report. One spotlight your superpowers, which is just your natural way of how people perceive you. It's easy for you. Be mindful. There's challenges with that as well. Right? We don't wanna overuse some of our strengths. The flip side, you'll get a low score and the you'll get a report on your lowest score. Again, I'm, I'm helping you shine a light on blind spots, right? So that you either know you have to hire someone. Or if you're communicating with someone like that, what do you need to give them? What do they need from you energetically? So you'll get those two reports, the superpower and the blind spot, which is, is pretty powerful.

Jennifer (27:08):

I think that's awesome. Honestly. That's fantastic. And I am super excited to head over there myself and take the quiz. Just, I love that kind of information. Thank you so much for being on the show with me, Connie and for all of our listeners, we will have all of Connie's contact information in the show notes. So I know you have a group, a membership site coming up soon.

Connie (27:35):

I do.

Jennifer (27:36):

I would love to let our audience know a little bit more about that before I let you go.

Connie (27:41):

You got it. So yeah, it it's funny because now all of a sudden after COVID, I'm dealing with business owners and some don't need me, some can't afford me. You know, you go, you get it, you get the same thing. As a business, it is what it is. We, the, the people that find us, but what I found is they were like, oh, I wish I had like a membership site. So you hear it enough? I was like, okay. So I'm, it's creating a membership site. It's gonna be $1 for the first month. And then the first 50 people I'm offering a founder's rate, $27 for life. I will never raise your price as long as you stay. You get my, I honor that because I'm honored that you wanted to be a founder in my membership and two meetings two hours a month, I'm gonna have office hours ask me anything and I'm gonna do live sales audits.

Connie (28:28):

So people could jump on and I'll be my Petri dish, and I'll do some just live coaching because everybody will learn from those sales audits and what to look for. And then I have a whole bunch of free gifts in there and I'm building a community so that when someone needs marketing, they're gonna know a gen does. And her zone of genius cuz marketing. There's a lot of hats we wear as well. Absolutely sales on the administration, the back end of things. CRMs, I could tell you, you need it. I don't wanna, I don't wanna set that up for you. I'd rather have pins in my eyes. So I'm building a community that we can almost insulate ourselves and depend on each other share, cuz I believe as the tides rise, right, we can rise together. And that is my membership is all about community and supporting each other super low price point. So I'm excited about that

Jennifer (29:15):

I love that so much. You are very welcome. I love everything that you've got going on and I encourage all of my listeners to head over to Connie's website, take that assessment and learn more about her membership site. I think it's super valuable, especially if you get in that first 50 people site up.

Connie (29:39):

I know.

Jennifer (29:40):

Thank you, thank you again, Connie, for joining me on Marketing Matchmaker. And for everyone else. I will see you next week.

Thank You for listening to the Marketing Matchmaker podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, I would love to hear your feedback. Please head over to iTunes and leave a review so we can hear from you. And if you are a coach, consultant, or online course creator who are looking to grow your business, increase your income, and scale your impact connect with me at yourmarketingmatchmaker.com. I look forward to hearing from you.