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Show Notes

As a business owner, it’s natural to have ambitious goals for growth and profitability. But sometimes, it’s hard to know how to take your service-based company to the next level. That’s why I’m excited to invite you to watch an exclusive marketing strategy session with Angelic Marnier. Together we’ll explore her struggles with scaling her service-based company and I’ll share my best strategies for taking it to the next level. These strategies are designed to help you be equipped to maximize your marketing success and take your business to new heights of profitability.

Contact Angelic Marnier

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/marnier.lassiter/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/digital.angelic/

Website: https://monetizeyourgenius.us/

Want to Work with Jennifer and her Virtual Marketing Experts Team?

Are you a coach, consultant, or online course creator who are looking to grow your business, increase your income, and scale your impact? Connect with me at YourMarketingMatchmaker.com I look forward to hearing from you.

Jennifer Tamborski 

Hey there and welcome back to Marketing Matchmaker. I’m super excited today because I have Angelic Marnier here with me. And we are diving into another strategy session. And I love doing these with people because it just gives I think everybody kind of an idea and inside looking to business and how you might be able to pivot small things or big things in your business to make a bigger impact. Angelic is a course creator, she helps people create and launch courses. And we were talking before the podcast, and in this year’s been a little wonky for her. So we’re gonna dive into that. So initially, tell the audience just who you are, what you do, who you serve, and then we’ll start conversation from there.

Angelic Marnier 

Let’s go. Thank you, Jennifer. Man, I’m excited to be on you’re excited to be here. I’m excited to have you on. So thanks for having me. Yep, I’m Angelic Marnier, Yay, I’m located in Los Angeles. And I’m all about helping people monetize their genius. Jennifer, I know you speak to a lot of people and I do to a lot of great thought leaders, a lot of great entrepreneurs, authors, coaches, they’ve got, they’re sitting on this pot of gold, but when I talk to them, they’re not making any money from this pot of gold, this expertise. So what I like to do is help them package that into digital products, so that they can have more of a passive revenue, they can continue to do the books that they love to do and do the blog posts and do the coaching. But I also want to show them how to package their expertise into online courses. So they can have more of a passive revenue. So that can offset what’s going on, get that money coming in, continue to do what you’re doing, but monetize all this brilliance that you have. So that’s what I help people do day in, day out.

Jennifer Tamborski 

I love that I love working with course creators. In general, the it’s so I think DIY courses, there’s positive and negatives to them. And it’s an easy way for people to start learning and start, you know, learning more I always look at, they can be your sole revenue source. And they can also be like the introduction into your value of people around them that. So tell me about this last year. I know before our call, you had said that this last year has been just a little wonky, but it’s not where you want it to be.

Angelic Marnier 

Yeah. Yeah. So if that not the whole year, so not like 365 days, first. And actually, January, February, were great. It was March, I took a true dip, like serious dip, and then April kind of rebounded, but then may not so good, then June. Okay. So it’s been you know, but it’s not the numbers, like I made high projections, you know, based on, you know, I did this last year, so I want to go this way. And and I haven’t done that. So it’s been kind of like this. So yeah, trying to figure out, okay, how do I get I want to scale, you know, I want to go. And so that’s what we’re on here, like with this think tank right now. Maybe some other people can glean from it and learn something from what we kind of converse about today.

Jennifer Tamborski 

Yeah, absolutely. That’s the whole goal. So I know, because I’m on your email list. So I know some of the things that you’ve been doing are like webinars and trainings, those kinds of things. Yeah. How have you been growing your email list.

Angelic Marnier 

So I grow my email list through a few different ways. So I have a Facebook group. And in order to join the Facebook group, I do ask for an email address. So I’ve definitely grown, that’s probably how I got to my first 1000 In the very beginning. And now that I do a lot with regards to direct messaging, and setting up actual appointments, when people have to set up their appointment with me and Calendly, they have to provide their email address. So they’re pretty much opting in and I’ve grown my email list that way as well, with everybody wants to jump on with me on a strategy session. They do have to provide their email address that way.

Jennifer Tamborski 

So go people that are jumping on with you on a strategy session, how are they finding you?

Angelic Marnier 

Typically, we are I do outreach, and I will DM them. And if they’re interested in what I’m talking about, a lot of times, I’ll look, you know, look at their profile and see like, Hey, you’re great at your food truck, or you’re great at leadership. Had you ever thought about creating your course. And they’ll be like, I never thought about that started the conversation. I’m like, hey, well, if you want to get some additional information, you know, here’s my link, they’ll get on the link and then we’re talking from there.

Jennifer Tamborski 

Okay. So your growth in the past year, or, you know, in the past at least have been has been really organic or manual and

Angelic Marnier 

very organic. Yeah, I I’ve done some, like when I do a challenge or a webinar or run ads, but that’s it. And that’s only like once a month, so I’m not running ads consistently throughout, you know, the whole month or anything like that.

Jennifer Tamborski 

Okay. All right. When you are running ads for how long are you running ads for prior

Angelic Marnier

two weeks,

Jennifer Tamborski

two weeks, okay. Right. So that’s that’s a decent timeframe, but you’re not You’re not doing Are you doing anything when you’re running ads, like visibility ads or awareness ads or anything like that to kind of grow your audience? No, I

Angelic Marnier 

No, I can’t say I’m doing that. So I know that I started to think about maybe just spending a little bit of money on boosting some of the stuff I’m doing, just to see.

Jennifer Tamborski 

So I wouldn’t necessarily suggest boosting you want to set it up as an actual ad rather than boost doesn’t reach the the audience that setting up an actual ad in ads manager, well, you can do that and really spend like $5 a day and reach a really large audience of people and start bringing them in, especially if the videos or whatever social media content that you’re posting leads to something else, like your Facebook group or, or some kind of download or something like that, that can really help, really low cost, but help to generate that audience for you that that wider audience base, one of the things you’re saying, yeah,

Angelic Marnier

just awareness ads.

Jennifer Tamborski

Yeah, video, I usually suggest video ads. So whether that’s a podcast that like if you have a podcast, you kind of put a small clip that introduces podcasts and sends them over to the podcast to listen, that works really well if it’s you doing the podcast, not necessarily you being interviewed, because that’s sending them to somebody else’s podcast. Okay?

If you have a blog post, or if you’re just producing reels or content in general on your social media, yeah, use that effectively in those ads. Now, I will say, if your reels have music in the background, take it off. Facebook will take down the video if it has any kind of copyrighted music, which about 50 to 60%. Is and you never know really until you get like, hit with Facebook going no, you can’t have this. Because you don’t know necessarily what’s copyrighted and what’s free use unless you Yeah, into that. So oh, so

Angelic Marnier 

the awareness ad would be just a small clip or whatever, one of my regular reels. And then that should take them to I don’t have a podcast, so it’d be more like just,

Jennifer Tamborski 

yeah, take them have a comment in the link below. Have, you know, ask them a question you want the engagement is what you’re looking for. Right? They’re looking for people to engage with you and with your brand.

Because that’s going to then allow you to get them into those DMS, like if that’s if that’s your method is is to work through the DMS, then that’s definitely what you want to do. And also allows you later to retarget people when you do go into the challenges or the launches or whatever those kinds of things are, you can retarget all of those people that have watched your videos.

If they’ve watched more than 50% of your videos, they’re invested, even if it’s a two minute video. Three to five seconds is about when people scroll off. So if they watched a two minute video in today’s world, they’re invested. Like they’re invested in who you are what you have to say. So retargeting them allows you to have a little bit of a warmer audience. Yeah, for you start bringing them into your training, whatever the training is, and then selling them.

Angelic Marnier

Okay, that makes sense. Yep.

Jennifer Tamborski

So that would be I think, step one. Step two I think is because I know you’ve you’ve spent a lot of time you know, building up this organic but we get to a point where there’s only so many people we can reach that way. Okay, you really want to scale it’s time to start growing your email list. Okay as rate so some kind of download some kind of quiz something something that’s low investment for the people giving you their email address like low time investment that’ll economically it’s going to be less expensive for them to sign up and give you their email address then for like I know, for challenges and webinars and those kinds of things, they can get 5-10-15 $20 per sign up. I don’t know what yours have been but that’s that’s industry average anywhere between five and $20 bucks but for a download or a quiz, you can get them at dollars to pennies on the dollar, depending on how well you quiz people love quizzes like you know, that whole what what is the right type of course for you or are you is your industry ready for a course or you know, things along that right line?

Just to give them, I personally We love quizzes for two reasons. One, it gives your audience the information they need, right? of whether or not this is a good step for them. And two, it gives you information about your audience.

Angelic Marnier

Okay, yeah, that’s helpful.

Jennifer Tamborski

So on the other side of it, you can know is there content that you need to focus on more is there is this person really ready? Like within that quiz, the end of the quiz can be, you know, sign up for a call, or here’s some free content if they’re not ready to get to that next place within you. So setting up a funnel on those on the front end, and starting to grow your email list a little bit more intentionally. Okay, as opposed to organically I think, is a great way. Because then again, when you go to do the launch, or the five day challenge, or webinar or anything else around that you have a warm pool to pull from.

Angelic Marnier 

Okay, that’s makes, Yeah, that’s brilliant. I love it. So, because I’ve been all organic, for the most part, yeah, my whole career. Yeah.

Jennifer Tamborski  

Yeah, yeah, I think most people do grow their business organically. And I find that there’s this like tipping point of where they they go grown to a point where they need more people, they need to reach more people and touch more people. And in the course world, that’s even more important, because there’s so many, like, courses in general, and I know yours is building out courses. But this just goes for in the general idea. A course, in general, is somewhere between $500 and usually around that $4,000 mark. Uh, but beyond that, it’s more like a high ticket, talking on a regular course. It’s like 500 to $5,000.

To get people into that, you have to have a lot of people that you’re reaching. And I think it goes for all business, really. And there comes a point when you’ve, you’ve tapped out your organic reach, and then start moving into ads. And I think it’s, I think you’re in a great position right now, because you have the foundation of what’s worked in the past. Right. You know, your five day challenges have sold your packages in the past. Yeah, that’s just getting more people into it. Yeah. That is to get them warm. Warm them up a little bit more. And yeah,

Angelic Marnier 

That makes sense. Yeah. Yep. I like it.

Jennifer Tamborski 

Awesome. Alright, so what questions do you have? Or what, what’s what’s going on in your brain right now?

Angelic Marnier 

I’ve taken pretty good notes. So it’s mainly okay, how to execute this. So the main thing is for me to, like I said, get some some Reels that have done well, probably proof of concept that those have done well. And then, like you said, just work on some $5 A day awareness ads. So that’s the main thing like picking out little clips, like you said, I have some stuff that I’ve done, even from the challenge of the webinar, I could probably pull some clips from that.

Jennifer Tamborski

Absolutely. Yeah.

Angelic Marnier

So it’s not a podcast, but it’s my podcast.

Jennifer Tamborski 

Exactly. repurposing content is a fabulous way to go about doing Yeah,

Angelic Marnier 

so that’s, I’m thinking, so in my head, I’m like, Okay, how do I do this with the shortest amount of time and the least amount of money. So I’m like, okay, already, I don’t have to redo anything, I can just pull from my, from my challenges, or from my already, I’ve done live, I got all kinds of stuff. So I can pull some clips from there. And I’ll do the awareness as I just got to figure out what I’m going to take them to.

Jennifer Tamborski 

Actually, I mean, it depending on what the awareness ads is, what the content is, it can just get conversation and in the messages, like at the at the end, you know, or within that copy, because you always want to copy as well as the video. But within that you can always say, hey, comment below, if you have questions or comment below your thoughts on whatever the topic is those kinds of things.

You can also there is a way to have them start a conversation with you with Bing Ads, so they can start a DM within ADS. So you can have them have a button that’s that says, you know, chat now or whatever, and, and conversation. So those are the kinds of things that you can do within the ads. But ya know, first step is really getting more people to know who you are.

Angelic Marnier 

Right? So that would be big. And then the next thing is to grow my email list through the ads. So I got to figure out I don’t have any quizzes, so I need to come up with a download or a quiz. And then basically, would that be taking them to like an opt in page? Is that what I’m doing

Jennifer Tamborski 

okay, you’re gonna take them to an opt in page, get their email address, send whatever information you’re you want to them. Now, I will also say there’s a shortcut in Facebook that that you can do if you’re not like if you don’t want to build an opt in page or whatever. You can do a messenger ad and set it up that way and then they give you their your stuff and then you mess it or you send the opt in through messenger. So that’s all that all just depends Unlike, obviously, you’re tech savvy, so that’s, you know, yeah, I

Angelic Marnier 

should be able to do that. If not, I have a my team, they can do all that stuff. So I’ll just have them create a, you know, a landing page. And easy enough, get that. And then and then make sure they get the quiz or the download. So yeah, and we’ll do that through that.

Jennifer Tamborski 

And then stage two is your email sequence that follows that, because the email sequence is just as important as getting their email address. What I know is so many people I’ve had, I’ve had clients in the past when I talked to him, I’m like, so what have you done? Because we work, we work in ads, right?

We bring in leads, sometimes we have clients where we do all their emails, and sometimes we don’t wait. And I’m like, so what have you done to nurture these people, and they’re like, well, if they didn’t book a call, I haven’t done anything online, you’re spending X amount of money on all these leads, and then just letting them kind of die. So you want to make sure that you have an email sequence that follows whatever your lead magnet is, so that you nurture them and keep them engaged and and tell them to do what’s next. Right, is that the next step is sign up for a call or, you know, take your head to your five day challenge or whatever that might be.

Angelic Marnier 

Right. Okay. Yep. So could be etc. So yeah, the my, I don’t have any real questions. At this point. My main thing is like in my head, like, okay, how am I gonna execute? What am I going to do? But like I said, I’m just going to repurpose stuff that I already have. Yeah, yeah. Plenty of that.

Jennifer Tamborski 

One of my favorite things to do when it comes to repurposing clients because I don’t know about you, but I hate watching myself replace. I handed off to someone and tell them to I’m like, watch this. Give me a couple of bits. That is yeah, you what? What hit you like that?

Angelic Marnier 

Yeah, totally. hit you. Okay. You, whatever it you. Yeah. So yeah. So yeah, repurpose the stuff. So that doesn’t take me any any additional time. I can get somebody who can cut my stuff up. Have you know somebody who helps me with that? So that’s not an issue. It’s mainly. So my next thing is, of course, to figure out my budget.

Jennifer Tamborski 

Yeah, absolutely. So budget. Now, realistically, I do this, I do a budget breakdown. I’ve done it before on the podcast. And in some of my trainings, when it comes to your marketing, you want to spend about 10 to 30% of your goal budget, on marketing. So if your goal is $10,000 a month, I’m using round numbers, simple math, then you need to use $1,000 a month, yeah, in spend. In marketing overall, that doesn’t necessarily mean it has to all be an ad spend. But if you can, can do it great. Like I said, awareness, ads, $5 a day plenty.

Lead Generation ads, the ones that go to your landing page, opt in something like that, you’re probably looking at 10 to $20 a day, okay, in order to get effective enough leads coming in to effectively use them. Okay, and then for like, challenges, and that because there’s a short window time, it’s usually 10 to 14 days before whatever that thing that you’re running, I usually say to spend at least $1,000 in that short period of time, because you want to have as much coming in as you can in that window.

If you can spend more great like if you if you know you have a budget of $2,000, and you’re going to run a webinar every six weeks, take $1000, Put it for just that and take the other $1000 and spread it out for everything else right now,

Angelic Marnier 

when you say spread it out, meaning what

Jennifer Tamborski 

a month, like use $1,000 a month and then use $1,000 for just that spend

Angelic Marnier 

that $1000 Just for ad in $1000 for any other marketing $1000?

Jennifer Tamborski 

For I would say if you have overall $2,000. I would say use $1000 to $1500 for ad spend and then $500 to $1000. It all just depends on what you’re doing and how cost effective what’s the ROI on the other? So yeah, yeah, we usually, on average, when we’re talking ads, whether they’re Facebook, LinkedIn, YouTube, those are what we specialize in. We’ve done others, but those are the platform’s we know the most. Yeah. Somewhere between $750 and $1,500 is about the sweet spot. So have a good-sized budget, right? If you have like if you’re, if you have $10,000 a month to spend, great, let’s make that work and effective for you. But if you don’t, I would say $750 is the lowest you can go on ads and still have an effective return on your investment.

Angelic Marnier 

Gotcha. And what do you guys say? Uh, I did do some YouTube ads. But I kept being in a lot of bots. So what do you guys say when it comes to YouTube.

Jennifer Tamborski 

So YouTube is a great platform if you if you’ve got it set up, right. And if you know where you’re tracking, you’re gonna hit bots on every platform. Like that’s, that’s gonna happen, unfortunately, I don’t know why people do this. Like, I don’t understand human behavior when it comes to this stuff. But it is unfortunate that you are going to hit that on on any platform, it really depends on where your people hang out.

Like if you have a large YouTube following, like a YouTube channel, and you have a large following. Definitely use YouTube ads. Okay, if your ideal client is that executive ish level where they’re not spending a ton of time on social media itself, right? Like, really, they will spend time on Google and they’ll spend time and the first thing that pops up in Google is always YouTube, right? Yeah, like, so YouTube ads can be effective there as well. So it just really depends on where you’re doing it.

Angelic Marnier 

But I find them at least that will book with me or LinkedIn. But I haven’t heard good things about LinkedIn ads.

Jennifer Tamborski 

LinkedIn ads can be expensive. And there they can be difficult to dial in. If you have a good email list, like if you’ve, you have to have in order to make any kind of look alike audience on LinkedIn, you have to have at least 300 people, which is different from Facebook, you only have to have 100, right? So you have to have at least 300 people. If you have a good quality list of buyers at that rate, you can create a great look alike list on LinkedIn.

If not, it’s a matter of tweaking that. They’re just not the targeting is just really different than Facebook. I always make the joke on Facebook, like you can target people down to their shoe size. Yeah, that’s true. But on LinkedIn, it’s not like it’s not the same. That being said, I think LinkedIn ads also work. It’s just that the.. here’s what you do. Facebook ads, you’ll get a lot of lookers, a lot of people sign up for the free thing. And they take the next step, LinkedIn, you have a lot more buyers, so they may cost more to get onto your list. But they’re more likely to purchase on the other side.

Angelic Marnier 

That’s good. That’s good. That was easy to understand. So I think that’s it. That’s a good one. What are you thinking I have good things about Tik Tok ads.

Jennifer Tamborski 

Tik Tok ads. Again, it depends on if you people are hanging on on Tik Tok, my people aren’t hanging out on tick tock, right like mine. If Gen X and above aren’t really hanging out on tick tock and that’s usually who I attract who I work with. Millennials and Gen Z you can find on Tik Tok. So it all just depends on who your buyer is.

Angelic Marnier 

Yeah, I just heard a few people. They’re like, No, they’re buyers. They’re ready to buy and they are ready to consume. I was like, Okay, I’m not really on Tik Tok. Like it should be I guess, so. I can’t. I don’t know.

Jennifer Tamborski 

Yeah, you know, I thought I’m like, I’m probably should be and still. Yeah, I know, most of my buyers are on LinkedIn, YouTube and, and Facebook. And that’s, that’s where they’re primarily.

Angelic Marnier 

So yeah, that definitely makes sense. So yeah. Yeah, no, this is helpful. What else are you seeing with regards to your clients right now, who are you know, continuing to flourish? What are they doing in this space with regards to marketing.

Jennifer Tamborski 

So basically, the the framework is laid out is a lot of what we do for our clients. So that awareness to build an audience lead gen to build an email list, and then some kind of training to build to bring in buyers like that’s, that’s a standard flow that we do, most of our clients that are doing really well have an evergreen portion, as well as a live portion. Okay.

So they’ll do like, we’ve we’ve set up funnels before for our clients where like, they have a download, and then within the email sequence that leads to an evergreen webinar of some kind. And then six to eight weeks later, they have a five day challenge. And somewhere in there, they buy some buy off of the Evergreen. I had one client, she’s like, I have people that go to the five day challenge, and then they go to the Evergreen webinar, and then they buy and then she has those that or vice versa, and some that just do one or the other.

But to have that consistency. We found that doing some kind of evergreen within that email sequence as well as a live thing, depending on the price point of your item helps.

Angelic Marnier 

it’s alright so they do like a live challenge and also something that this is like a link this email to them and that’s the evergreen and that’s anytime.

Jennifer Tamborski 

Yeah. And it just it really just depends on your audience. That’s the thing about marketing like I can give you I can tell you what, what’s worked for our client, and and it may not work for you like it’s going to depend on your audience and how they respond to it.

But we do find that that kind of three step process of download to Evergreen to something live house, especially if you’re the product that you’re selling is in that like three to $5,000 or up range. Oftentimes you can sell through a sales page if your item is like $2,500 or under, people will often buy, but if you’re in that higher range, you need, oftentimes kind of alive touch for them.

Angelic Marnier 

Yeah. Then that makes sense. Yeah, I definitely get that. Yeah. So download to maybe something like and then after they watch live, even give them another opportunity. Like here’s anytime,

Jennifer Tamborski

or vice versa. Yeah.

Angelic Marnier

Yeah. So you guys have done like download to, to Evergreen to live? Yeah, yeah, that will make sense to me. Yeah. So from there, they’ve got to know you like you trust you. And hopefully at that point, yeah, they’re gonna buy or you just keep them on your email list and continue to nurture them.

Jennifer Tamborski 

Exactly. Exactly. That’s the biggest thing. The one one thing we know, the bigger your email list you can grow, the more likely you are to be able to scale. Reality is we sell to one to 3% of our audience.

Angelic Marnier

Yeah.

Jennifer Tamborski

And if one to 3% if 1000 people is is all you have one said. Like, that’s Yeah, yeah. Start running out of people to sell to.

Angelic Marnier 

Yeah, that makes sense. No, this all makes sense to me. So yeah, now it’s just a matter of doing the the awareness ads and doing growing the email list. I think the other part I’m pretty much doing with the the download to the live, I don’t have the Evergreen part of it. So I’ll have to just put something in there. That’s evergreen, but

Jennifer Tamborski 

I’m sure you have. I’ve seen all of your stuff come through I know.

Angelic Marnier 

Put it on in there where it’s evergreen. Yeah, I don’t really use too much of that. I just do the live and then the follow ups with the sequence. But like you’re saying just to add in something that’s evergreen that they can click on any time or even start with some of this evergreen and bring in from the challenge. That all makes sense.

Jennifer Tamborski 

Yeah. And one of the things that I do like to do I talk to my clients about is in your signature, signature, always put in what the next step is, whether that’s, you know, you can do to PS or PPS, whatever. Always put in, Hey, you want to take your next step, here’s a link to my calendar, or, Hey, you want to dive into more content? Here’s a link to my Evergreen. And that way, you’re kind of soft selling them throughout the entire sequence without like pushing without a hard push.

Angelic Marnier 

That’s good. Yeah, right. Now I have my Facebook group in the signature, but maybe I’ll try something different.

Jennifer Tamborski 

Yeah, I mean, you can leave that you can do both. You can actually put like, PS, join my Facebook group PPS, you know, Evergreen, here’s a webinar where I taught XYZ. Yeah, if you’re interested, or you can, you know, hop on my calendar through this link, and you can change them up throughout the email. So yeah,

Angelic Marnier 

that’s pretty cool. Yeah. No, I think this is all good info. Oh, yeah, definitely, definitely in the right place, you are in the right place.

Jennifer Tamborski 

All right. Thank you so much for coming on today. I enjoyed this conversation so much. And for those of you out there that are looking to grow your business, increase your revenue, and scale your impact, and you’re not sure what to do next, head over to yourmarketingmatchmaker.com and sign up for a free strategy session and we can do the same thing we did here. Talk to you soon.

OUTRO: Thank you for listening to the marketing matchmaker podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, I would love to hear your feedback. Please head over to Apple iTunes and leave a review so we can hear from you. And if you are a coach, consultant or online course creator who are looking to grow your business, increase your income and scale your impact. Connect with me at your marketing matchmaker.com I look forward to hearing from you.